Just added support for VRC6 extention chips in my NSF player...

Good GOD is that a cool chip. And suprisingly very easy to emulate =D. I was worried the extension chips would be crazy hard like the DMC channel... but this was a snap. I just hope the other chips flow as easily.

Just thought I'd mention it... I'm so stoked I had to share ^_^

Yeah, it is a really cool-sounding chip. And still sounds NES-like.

I'm sure you'll find the MMC5 sound expansion to be easy to emulate, at least. Too bad I only know of one NSF that uses it, though. (called Just Breed. Nice name, eheheh)

Heh, just wait for the VRC7 chip. ;)

I checked Festalon's source... egads!

Looks like VRC6 is the only extension chip for now =P. I can add the rest later... maybe... =P

congrats, I'm glad to hear your player is comming along so nicely. my emu is comming along good too. If you were writing the sound code, it would be even better lol, no dmc or any expansion chips yet.

Most people say Castlevania 3USA uses MMC5. But I don't believe that.

I know Gun Sight (aka Laser Invasion) does.

Yes, both those games use MMC5. A couple games by Koei, like Uncharted Waters use it too. But the sound channels don't work on the NES (it's on the expansion port instead), they're sitting there on the chip going to waste. :|

memblers you're saying even though the mmc5 has extra channels, they're unusable on the nes? what's the deal emulating it then?

MMC5, despite being a mapper, does have it's own audio registers like all of the other audio expansion chips available (VRC6/7, Namco106, etc.). The problem isn't with the chip -- it's with the NES.

In the case of external audio chips, all the audio is spit out through a single pin on the cart, which then goes through the console and out via whatever audio circuitry there is on-board your NES. The console therefore has to support the pin and route it properly.

The NES simply has this pin cut off/shorted on the cartridge slot. So, despite something like CV3 USA possibly spitting out extra audio (I have NO IDEA if it *really* does or doesn't -- one needs to look at a disassembly or realtime trace of the game to find out), it's not like we'll hear it. You could probably mod your NES to support this, but I don't recommend anyone mod anything in their console (that's just my opinion though).

I assume this applies to the PAL NES and not only the NTSC model; no idea about the pirated Famicom/NES units. The only unit I know which supports the external audio pin is the Famicom.

I'm sure all of this was done for pure financial reasons. There's a lot of great stuff for the Famicom that North American citizens never got to appreciate. The one example I can give off the top of my head is Gryzor (Japan) / Contra (North America). The Japanese release (Konami VRC2B mapper + 128KB PRG + 128KB CHR) contains a couple extra levels (one with falling snow!), a full-fledged intro, an animated cut-scene when you finished a stage, plus a full-screen animated map showing your progress along each of the stages. All of this was removed in the North American release (UNROM mapper + 128KB PRG + 0K CHR), and I can guarantee you it was for financial reasons. Think about the savings you could make by removing a custom mapper ASIC from the cartridge as well as cutting the PROM size in half. Try out Gryzor sometime, all the "extras" make it even more fun.

-- jdc

There are two "pins" on Famicom carts, one for audio in, the other for audio out.

IIRC, on a non-audio-enhanced Famicom cart, there is usually just a trace from the audio in to the audio out.

On my Virtual NES emulator, I found a way to find out what a game with an audio expansion chip would sound like when you try to play it in an NES. you can turn down the volume the chips make.

And I wholeheartedly advise NOT to play Lagrange Point (VRC7) on your NES. You'll get NO music at all. Just several sound effects, and the drumset (the only thing in the musical score that the NES is familiar with. Its the same drumset used in Castlevania III, Tiny Toon Adventures, and the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Batman Returns, and Bucky O'Hare.

On my Virtual NES emulator, I found a way to find out what a game with an audio expansion chip would sound like when you try to play it in an NES. you can turn down the volume the chips make.

After I tested it out with the Lagrange Point NSF (VRC7), I concluded that if you just have an NES, it's not worth having an actual copy of the game. You'll get NO music at all, just several sound effects, and the Noise Channel which are the drumlines and that's the only thing the NES is familiar with. Its the same drumset used in Castlevania III, Tiny Toon Adventures, the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from Ultra Games, Batman Returns, and Bucky O'Hare.

My bad Memblers. I reposted, I tried to edit. Delete the first one. I gotta learn how to reedit posts. My bad

There's no way to edit a post other than remove the thread, unfortunately. No big deal, it happens. :)

so what's the logic emulating this chip?? just to see what games would have sounded like? I mean why whould a programmer put in music, effects that he knew wouldn't work on the nes?? or is this just for people making games now? sorry for the dumb questions, I'm just trying to see the logic behind why people emulate these audio chips

Because there are some Famicom games use MMC5 with it's sound.

For japanese games... which ran on the Famicom (not on the NES). They used the extension chips.

Example:

Akumajou Densetsu uses the VRC6 chip (including the sound) and runs on the Famicom
Castlevania 3 (the US import) had the sound completely redone presumably because the expansion sound would not work on the NES.

erp... didn't realize we were talking about MMC5 lol

yeah... Memblers pointed Just Breed out to me (which uses that sound), don't know of any others though, but I didn't bother looking.

Howdy, Jeremy. Long time no talk (This is Chris C).

Some corrections: I'm pretty sure the US version of Contra has the snow level... it just doesn't have the falling snow. But you're right, the US version was gutted of extra features. I even made a page about that a long time ago... There is also extra animation in the backgrounds on the first stage (billowing leaves) and the final stage (pulsating alien stuff). Stupid cheap Konami!

I didn't know that you were a PAL person. ;-) Most Europeans assume that Gryzor is also called that in Japan, but no. Not sure about the MSX or other Euro-popular versions, but the Arcade and Famicom versions both are named Contra -- that's KON TO RA in Kanji.

Well... to keep this sound-related, yes, many, if not all, Famicom clones route the Famicom audio through the cartridge connector, as on a standard Famicom.

The PAL Contra series is called "Probotector" in Europe. And the players are robots instead of Rambo-esque characters.

thanks for the info