memblers - was wondering if you had ideas for the layout of the music nes app/game/rom

here are some ideas -

1. intro title screen -
2. select save/new song screen (similar to a save screen, zelda ect)
3. main song screen

bpm:123 midi active blip (fututre midi stuf)
--------------------------------------------
-song pattern sequence select---------------
-0a 0a 0a 0a 0b 0b 0b 0b -->(to next line)
-0c 0c 0c 0c 0d 0d 0d 0d
-0a 0a 0a 0a 0b 0b 0b 0b
-0c 0c 0c 0c 0d 0d 0d 0d
-0a 0a 0a 0a 0b 0b 0b 0b
-0c 0c 0c 0c 0d 0d 0d 0d
-0a 0a 0a 0a 0b 0b 0b 0b
-0c 0c 0c 0c 0d 0d 0d 0d(just a big block of patterns)
__________________________________

------------------ ------------------
nfo--------------- small bitpic here
small txt box here

------------------ ------------------

-------------------------------------
pattedit - save - quit - (menu)
-------------------------------------

4. pattern area - (select which pattern you want to edit in the trakker/seq window)

00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f --> (and on down ect)

5. the trakker area -

select step resolution - 8/16/32/64/128
number of steps -

(play data)

pulse a
vol
note
wave type
env?
vibrato
vib aft

pulse b
vol
note
wave type
env?
vibrato
vib aft

tri
note
env?
vibrato
vib aft

noise
vol
note or wav type -

- not sure how to handle using for sample channel -

perhaps the trakker window could be a side-scroller so you wouldn't have to throw everything on one small area -

well this is extremely rough - I know but maby it might help for a layout - please chime in for ideas/advice - thx

screen 3. the main song sequence arranger thing - is where you would pick the patterns order in which they will playback -

the patterns contain loops of note data - which you would use the trakker format to input - notes I guess should also have a duration and an option for an inverse volume in - but I guess that can be specified by the volume env -

not sure about the sample issue - perhaps you could just have a few samps included - and if peeps want to eventually change out samps - then have some mod patches - but even without the samps it would be great to get something up on a cart and on the real thing - I would definetly be stoked - even without midi - all that extra crap - just to give it a go - thx

also the song loop (the main song loop) can be specified somehow in the main arranger window (3)

Thanks for the ideas. This is one part of the project I haven't started work on, yet. I might need to do horizontal scrolling, but I'll avoid it if possible. I like having everything on screen, unless it gets too crowded.

I've been working on a little game recently, so I haven't done much work on the music engine. Soon though, this game should be good enough to require music/sfx - I'll have even more motivation to get it working (and more coding experience, heheh).

http://www.trash80.net/cp/files/collective/90-vvreaktangle.doc

conceptual sequencer application for the gb.
a funny read non the less.

so are you thinking about preloaded samples(i.e. drumkits) such as lsdj/gamebox, etc.?
or would there possibly some way to load samples from a pc?
just curious.

-2wm

The program size will probably be 512KB, so there could be enough room for a decent sample library. And if I get the software mixing thing AND an NES-to-PC cable working, then it'd be able to load 7-bit samples from the PC into RAM.

DPCM of course, being in ROM isn't changed easily. But I'm sure I could come up some kind of patching system for those.

coo - the only thing though is a panio roll seems like it wouldn't be appropriate - just because it seems like it would entail some extra overhead that would make the programming more of a pain

- plus not a good way of using screen space - just sounds like a big bloat
I mean mml even puts a trakker to shame in terms of efficency of space, so a panio roll even more so

hah - the funney thing is that the panio roll is my best sequencing bud - wouldn't get very far without it - but with the nes environment, it just doesn't seem much of a good idea -

??

i wonder, probably just a silly thought, if the miracle piano system keyboard could be supported. that would make entering note data a lot easier. i think it goes in thru the expansion port but i may be wrong. you would still have to enter any parameter data with the controller but it would be some kind of shortcut nonetheless.

--2wm

Even so a Piano Roll wouldn't be a good idea but it is also best for people whom are beginning to work with music, this way they can also use the software easier without getting stuck in a rut and constantly reffering to manuals or asking people on the forums with the same, same, and same question over again.. -_-;;

I'd be willing to reverse-engineer the miracle piano (once I get a dev cart), if I could only get ahold of one. I've only seen the SNES ones, in stores, and that was like a decade ago.

It's probably too uncommon to be of much use, though.

yeah, i guess it is a pretty rare item. still, some other type of interface would be great. even if it was a famicom or other pc keyboard, it would still be something. i don't know if it's possible to connect one to the nes, though. especially the famicom keyboard, don't know if the expansion ports are compatible. i know you can connect a pc keyboard to the gameboy thru the link port. ahh, pipedreams.

--2wm

With a software like this, it'd make NES music creation easy as a snap. I can't wait to see it made. ^__^

If my idea for an NES to PC cable works, then there's a possibility of using that to indirectly access the PC's keyboard. I imagine there'd be some delay if it was done like this, though.

Now another question. Will there be compatibility with an actual MIDI keyboard? Like I have a Casio-5TK keyboard for instance and I want to use that with your software.

That's something I'll have to look into eventually. I think it can do MIDI-IN with some kind of adapter, but maybe if the PC connection works it can read the MIDI input from there?

I can't really test any of this stuff until I get the dev cart I need.. and I don't know when that will be. :-/

would it be possible to connect the nes joy to a parallel or serial port? -
perhaps you could just use software on the pc to communicate with the box - that way you could do all the midi stuff in software and take advantage of the flexibility - to do testing or deal with workarounds - even load up sounds into ram that way - also in the software you could select a midi in & be able to use any of the midi sequencing apps for pc that you would normally use with midi. -

I'm not sure about the voltage and the baud for compatability though with that kind of a link -

but perhaps it would be easier to test the controller midi i/o code with the midi soft if you can hack into an emu to get at the controller i/o -

well it's all speculation - which isn't really anything to go on, sigh..

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm wanting to do when I get a Maxicart. From what I've heard so far, it will be easier to hook the NES up to the parallel port than serial. I'm pretty sure it could get a connection rate of at least around 9600 baud when it's loading. (reading data once per frame might be a little trickier, but I'm confident I could figure it out somehow..)

Also, I've figured if I can do this, I could leave some entry and exit points in strategic locations of my code, so something like plug-in routines (or even minigames, heheh) could be loaded into RAM for future expansion.

hey memblers, I'm digging into nes based 6502, and (almost :/ (ramadaptor)) have a famicom + disk system to use for dev work, so I'm up for helping bring this thing to life, from code to hardware testing,

it will take me a while to get nes's memory addressing, and irq use down, but the nesdev docs' are almost uncanny, very helpfull - thx

i was wondering if this idea was still being worked on or not. i try not to get my hopes up but it would be such an awesome app for the nes...just the idea of being able to hear compositions being played on a real nes while your composing it...and especially since the greybox seems to have disappeared.

Yeah, I'm assembling a couple prototypes of the transfer cable. The schematic is here: http://wwwk.heltech.edu.hel.fi/koti/sepi/nes/nes.htm#4

Source code to use it will be released when it's ready.

I haven't worked much on the music program (I'm still in need of a cart with a certain type of IRQ generator). But one thing I want to try first is having MIDI redirected to the NES, or maybe document a way for NSF players to support it when the software is ready.

looks good! i'm glad you're not going with a PIC as there are many hobbyists, like myself, who don't have a way to program a PIC or the necessary expertise to do so(also like myself.) so, i'm guessing you want to use this cable for transfering saves or possibly for midi with regards to the music program? i was wondering whether you wanted to do a simple midi sync or full implentation.
but nsf player support(i'm guessing somewhere along the lines of hardsid support for sidplay and emulators, etc.) would be awesome. although many of the winamp plugins are really spot on in their sound emulation, hearing nsfs on a real nes would be the best. not just for purists but also from a development point of view. this is a great project, by the way.

I'm not sure how MIDI will be handled, I suppose it depends on how much data there is. I have basically zero experience with MIDI.

I guess the PC host program could interpret it, and send data for the sound registers directly to the NES. That way it's MIDI support would be easily expandable. A music program would need some more specific data though, like note, velocity, etc. (my keyboard doesn't even have velocity, so I'm not sure how I'm gonna test that. still need to make a MIDI-gameport adapter too)

yes I decided to learn how to program the nes, and I'm now learning picmicro mpasm, and I'm probably going to split things for now between the midi application interface + nes midi driver and the actual nes based sequencer, focusing on midi first and the sequencer afterwards.

the approach I am using with midi is to use a pic to handle midi processing and then using a translation program to encode the messages into patterns that use the gamepad ports to communicate. For power the pic doesn't have any problems running on the +5 out of the nes's joy lines.

The reason I am using this approach is the nes doesn't have a fast enough clock to deal with midi and everything else, so dumping off the overhead onto the pic is really the best way to go, this allows the nes to do more advanced audio junk, rather than waisting time on midi processing.

also since the pic can be clocked higher than the nes it has some headroom to implement features to complement the nes's joy to sound driver (that is another part of the process)- things like arpeggio

anyway , memblers midi is 8 bits sam witched between a start bit and stop bit, the bitch with midi is the clock, it's asynchronous serial 31.25Kbaud, if the nes were a risc cpu it might be able to handle/time it correctly but still you would be taking so many cycles just for polling

anyway the pic programmers are just as cheap and easy to build as any eprom programmer, and similarly cheap to purchase, so I don't see where it would be a problem, I mean essentially it's just another flash/eeprom programmer, just flashing a pic not standalone eeprom

the pic memory map is a bitch, as I'm new to it, but I luv the chips they are quite capable

as for the actual nesbased hardware sequencer, now that I understand the nes's memory map and capabilities I've somewhat altered my application logic/ideas for it's limited memory, taking an array based approach,

I'll probably work on the sequencer after I get the midi stuff working - anyway this is my first real hardware project, I've only known assembly programming for a few months, however thanks to nesdev I've been able to actually set up a dev station, and do basic testing with code working on the nes, and now I'm getting into picmicro's mcu's. There is no way I would have been able to do this without the scene's support. So I'd just like to say thanks for that.

Also at least now instead of having to beg people to build something for the nes. I can explore my ideas at my own pace, and rather contribute nesdev ideas based on tested working code rather than obscure lamer generalities, like I've previously posted.

cheers

http://www.wayfar.net/midines_test_01_divx.avi

Wow, looks cool. :D